Baking for Business Growth with Sarah Holland

Intro: Welcome to Start Local, where we talk with business owners, leaders of nonprofits, and other members of our community focused on doing business in and around Chester County, Pennsylvania. Each episode will provide insight into the local business scene and tell you about opportunities to connect with and support businesses and nonprofits in your local area.

The Southern Chester County Chamber of Commerce promotes trade, commerce, industry, and sustainable economic development while supporting a diverse and growing marketplace. The Chamber is proud to partner with the Start Local podcast to raise the profile of businesses and nonprofits throughout Chester County. Learn more about the chamber at scccc. That’s scccc.com 

Liam Dempsey: Hey, hey, welcome to the Start Local Podcast. I am Liam Dempsey, and I’m here today with Erik Gudmundsson. Erik, Erik, how are you today?

Erik Gudmundson: I am doing very well, and I’m excited because anytime we talk about food, it’s always a good episode. It makes me hungry.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah, this is the— yeah, I’m with you on that. I love when we have, uh, —culinary professionals on the show? I’m gonna put it that way. Yeah, clearly my brain was thinking about it for a little bit, but I think I got there in the end. 

Folks, today we are super pleased to welcome Sarah Holland. She is the owner of Good Girls Bakery. It’s a wonderful bakery in the Eaglevue Town Center in Exton, Pennsylvania, and it is absolutely well known for its amazing sourdough creations. Welcome, Sarah.

Sarah Holland: Hi, thank you for having me.

Erik Gudmundson: Sarah, it’s a pleasure to have you, and I’m looking forward to answering you some or asking you some more technical questions than I normally can if I’m stopping in, grabbing some bites.

Sarah Holland: Yeah, open book. Love to help people learn about sourdough and baking.

Liam Dempsey: Then let’s turn to page one. Sarah, you’re the owner of Good Girls Bakery. As I said, you’re right in the Eagleville Town Center, and it’s a sourdough-focused bakery offering breads, pastries, cookies, and much more, I’m sure, as well as breakfast and lunch. But tell us briefly about your bakery business. Go into a little bit more detail about what you sell and where folks can buy from you.

Sarah Holland: Um, sure. Uh, what we sell, we sell everything bread-wise. So we don’t do cakes. Um, we are a sourdough bread bakery, and then we also do classic French-style croissants with laminated doughs and, um, as well as cookies. And we make homemade Pop-Tarts. We call them heart tarts because they’re in the shape of a heart. And, um, and then of course, uh, famously, we make our sourdough English muffins. 

Um, you can find us at Eagle View in Exton. Um, we’re right in town center. And then you can also find us, um, at farmers markets in Chester County. We do the Malvern Farmers Market, which is right in the borough at Burke Park. And we also do the Downingtown Farmers Market, which is, um, also in the borough of Downingtown in Kerr Park. Both of those are on Saturday mornings. And then we also do a Thursday evening market, which is in Eagleview, which is where our bakery is located. So then it kind of covers all timing and schedules. And if, you know, you can’t get to the bakery during the day, you can definitely go to the farmer’s market. And, um, and that’s where, yeah, that’s where you can find everything. Um, we hope to see you at the bakery. Yeah.

Erik Gudmundson: Yeah, definitely. Well, let’s talk sourdough for a minute. Uh, like Liam and, a lot of our listeners, you got into sourdough during the pandemic, but as a trained, experienced, and professional chef, you went to the next level with your sourdough starter. So two questions for you. What attracted you to sourdough? And what was your process for creating your starter dough?

Sarah Holland: That’s a great question. The easy answer is I’m a Science nerd. So that’s what took me into sourdough. Before I did sourdough, I was just like into whatever kind of Science project. Um, I taught myself how to make soap, and then I sold that. So it’s more just like I create a hobby and then I figure out how I can profit from it and how to make money from it. I’ve just always have had that like business mind and chasing the dollar. 

Um, so the way I started my starter, it was during the pandemic, just like everyone else. Um, but I, you know, I can’t stop thinking about how to turn something into a successful business. And so then I taught myself how to make sourdough.

Um, the starter process is very long. Um, before it started rising to the point that I felt was acceptable, it was at least, you know, 5 or 6 months. Um, and then baking with it, you know, takes even longer, but it’s probably ’cause I’m a terrible critic and I want everything to be perfect. Uh, but so it’s just like a series of taking flour and water and a lot of time, and just allowing it to ferment. 

There’s a lot of different, different recipes that you can find on the internet on how to make your own starter. Some of them use like a fruit juice that helps it to sour faster. Um, we didn’t do that. I literally just took flour and water, left it on the counter, and then you have to constantly feed it. In the beginning, you have to feed it twice a day, and what feeding means is that you’re giving the culture more food, meaning more flour, so that it can continue to ferment and grow the bacteria, which, you know, it’s a lactic acid bacteria. I’m not gonna get too technical with it, but it’s the good bacteria. And that’s what, that’s what makes sourdough different is that it, it does have a good bacteria that’s good for your gut and it’s good for your microbiome and your body and— Um, and so it was basically, you’re just creating a bacteria that creates carbon, carbon dioxide, which is the little tiny bubbles that is in your bread. And that’s what naturally leavens your bread. So there’s no commercial yeast in our sourdough. Um, and it’s, it, that’s, that’s the story. Yeah.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah. I love that. And it is Erik suggested I have my own sourdough, but mine was literally flour and water, and just ignore it, and it happened to work. But when you were telling me— 

Sarah Holland: Lucky you.

Liam Dempsey: You were, you were— Yeah, I, I had no skill. It was just a coincidence. But you were, you were telling me before we hit the record button that you were noting like the humidity of, of the room and the temperature in which the dough was sitting, and you were like being very scientific about it. Can you just spend just a few seconds telling us about that? Because you made it seem like, well, I just added some flour and water, I fed it a few times. But you were a lot more scientific than that. Tell us a little bit about that.

Sarah Holland: Yeah, so, um, at the time, I was a chef at a restaurant, and so I had my own kitchen that I would go to work to at every day. And wherever I went, I would literally bring the starter with me, and I would mark the container so that I could evaluate how much it had risen in a certain period of time, and the temperature of the water and the flour that I’m feeding it versus the room temperature. 

Um, it was— like, I guess, like a chemistry experiment. Like, put yourself back in, you know, 11th grade chemistry class, and, you know, you’re— you’re making a hypothesis, you’re, you know, recording the activity, you’re recording, you know, cause and effect, what’s happening, how fast. Like, does the water temperature really make it rise faster? Um, but yeah, the— everything was down to a Science because this wasn’t gonna be a hobby for me. I was going to use this product to create a business. So it was very important that I knew what I was working with and how to adjust it. And we got to know each other very well over the past 3 years.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah, I love that. Thanks for walking us through that. And folks out there listening, I’ll, I’ll just go ahead and share that as the deeper that Sarah went into the Science of it, the more and more Erik was paying attention, getting excited by it. So that was—

Erik Gudmundson: You’re not wrong. You’re not wrong.

Sarah Holland: We’re of like minds.

Liam Dempsey: It’s a beautiful thing. Let me move on to the next question, Sarah. So certainly in, in my life and in with my loved ones, there’s kind of a growing interest in value and in being aware of food sensitivities, not just allergies, but kind of everything that kind of comes around that. And I, and I wonder if, if there are any special types of— I’ll call it, put it in air quotes here— ingredient-free. I mean, clearly it can’t be totally ingredient-free, but like challenging ingredient-free pastries that you specialize in, or as you’ve talked about, found a market for it? Is there something that you’ve thought about, decided to, to get into it as a hobby, and try to commercialize that?

Sarah Holland: Not specifically. Do you— are you talking about like gluten-free or dairy-free?

Liam Dempsey: Or, you know, there’s a whole range of challenges there.

Sarah Holland: Um, I, have not. I do know that there are some bakeries who specialize in vegan baking, and there are a lot of, um, vegan butters that they’ve, they’ve come a real long way with as far as replicating for, uh, vegan bakeries to be able to make comparable products. Um, I, I like to just stick to, to what I know. 

Um, I will say that all of our sourdough loaves are vegan. It’s just flour, water, salt. There’s, you know, some of them might have honey, um, depending on, you know, I know some vegans are a little more strict with honey, but yeah, there’s It’s a lot of our products that you wouldn’t even think about are already vegan as far as bread goes. Um, so that’s the fun fact.

Erik Gudmundson: Yeah, that’s something that I think a lot of people don’t know. And it always cracks me up as I’m going through the grocery store and you see little stickers on things that are obviously, you know, vegan or obviously gluten-free, and they’re advertising, promoting the fact they’re, they’re vegan, they’re gluten-free. And it’s like, yeah, yeah, I hope so.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah.

Sarah Holland: Yeah. It’s marketing.

Erik Gudmundson: But that’s okay. Well, let’s, let’s go back to dollars for a moment. And I’m reflecting back to your first answer. Let’s talk about revenue streams specifically. I’m curious what the breakdown of your sales are. And you certainly don’t have to talk exact numbers, but I’m wondering what percentage of your sales comes from the bakery versus farmers markets, versus home deliverie,s or other sources about your different channels.

Sarah Holland: I would say it’s hard to judge that, but if I were to, um, it’s hard because I don’t do a farmer’s market every single day. So naturally, the bakery is open for business a lot more. So a majority of our revenue does come from the business. Um, if we were to look at it from like a daily perspective, uh, I would say the most profitable or the most sales that we would get would be from the sourdough classes. 

Um, But the overall bakery is probably like 80% because we’re open 80% of the time. But the, the farmers markets are a really big revenue stream for us, especially in the summertime. You know, for the farmers market being 3 or 4 hours, we make close to, you know, half the amount that we would make at the bakery on a Saturday. So we, you know, like concentrated, it’s more concentrated sales at the farmer’s market if you were to look at it in that perspective. But the most, the most sales that we would get like from that same perspective, I’m not explaining this right. 

Liam Dempsey: No worries, carry on. 

Sarah Holland: The sourdough classes make us the most money as a business. It— but we, we are only able to do it twice a month because of, uh, restrictions. And mostly it’s my time, um, is that I would like to have 2 Sundays a month off. So, uh, but yeah, for the most part, it’s— that’s kind of the order. But of course, the bakery makes us the most money as far as revenue because it’s open, you know, 100% of the time, as to where the farmers markets we only do twice a week or 3 times a week depending on the season.

Liam Dempsey:  Yeah, that’s a nuanced answer. Thanks for walking it through that. I do appreciate the work that went into that. But let’s talk about your career for a minute. Um, you shared previously that after high school you worked as a server and a restaurant staff for a number of years, kind of learning your way around a commercial kitchen and restaurant operations. But at some point you said to yourself, I need to get a formal education to really— to progress your culinary career. So you were accepted into the restaurant school at Walnut Hill College. What did you study there? And more importantly, or of equal importance, I think, in my view, why did you study whatever you selected to study?

Sarah Holland: Um, that’s a really good question. Uh, I have a long answer and a short answer, but, um, so, uh, I studied pastry arts at the restaurant school at Walnut Hill College. 

Um, to backstep, the job I had when I started attending that college was I was a line cook, and my chef at the time said to me, I don’t remember the quote, but he pushed me to my limits literally every single day that I worked. And he told me that one day I’m gonna be better than him and that I need to go to school. And so I took, I took that on the chin, and I was like, you know what? This, Someone else believes in me, maybe, you know, I should try. And I felt at the time that I was, you know, experienced, and I knew how to cook, but I didn’t know how to bake. So I figured I could like, you know, fake my way through cooking and climb the ladder, but I didn’t know anything about the process of pastry. 

So, um, I went to study pastry arts and I did a 2-year program at the restaurant school and, um, ironically, they didn’t teach us sourdough, but they did teach us basic, um, bread and, you know, the pastries and, uh, all of that. So that’s, that’s kind of how that came to be.

Erik Gudmundson: I personally, I love cooking and baking, but I don’t tell people that I know how to bake because I feel like baking is more precise, whereas cooking, I can have a little bit more freedom and flexibility and let that creative side out. Um, you know, whereas baking is a little bit more, to your point, like a, like a chemistry experiment. You have to get it just right, and you have to makeit  repeatable, and, you know, it’s, it’s a little bit more of a regimented process, but, but boy, it, boy, it tastes good.

Sarah Holland: Yeah. And then the other thing is, like, you know, you can tell everyone, like, oh wow, he’s really good at making dinner, he’s a really good cook. But, like, if you tell someone that you’re a good baker, like, instantly they’re like, well, I have a birthday coming up, and I need someone to make me a cake. And it’s just like, it’s classic. Like, it’s, it never fails. You tell someone that you’re, you know, how to bake or you like baking, and then they instantly want you to make them something. But if you tell someone that you’re a good cook, nobody asks you to make them anything.

Erik Gudmundson: Well, let’s fast-forward in your career a little bit. Let’s— and we’re gonna stop at the Artisan Exchange in West Chester. That’s a business incubator for folks looking to start their own food-based businesses, and a good food market and farmer’s market unto itself as well. After you last— after you left your last job, you worked on your business from the Artisan Exchange. Your first product was sourdough English muffins. Why did you choose English muffins as your way into owning a bakery? And what sets your English muffins apart from your perspective, from others in the local bakery market scene?

Sarah Holland: Um, that’s great. It’s— that’s partially true what you said. So we started with sourdough bread and sourdough English muffins. And I actually used to do sourdough bagels, which is you know, it was like bagels versus English muffins, and it was this huge thing. And, you know, which should I do? And the space was so small that I literally, like, I had to make a decision, like, which am I going to do? And like, you know, there’s so many bakers in Chester County to compete with, and, you know, they also make really good bagels, and— but nobody made English muffins. And I would, I would, I’d bet on the English muffins, and I would bet every time over. I would do the same thing every single time. 

The English muffins are square, so that makes them different than, you know, what you would see at the grocery store. Um, but my English muffins are not like Thomas’s in any way, shape, or form. They’re— you’re not gonna get the nooks and crannies that you get in Thomas’s. Mine are light and fluffy and soft and almost like if you could make a bread a cake, but it’d still be bread. So it— It has that bready bite to it, but it’s— you have to just eat one. I could, I could describe it in a million different ways, and it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t do it justice.

Erik Gudmundson: No, that’s, that’s a, that’s a helpful answer. And yeah, I wish we could have, you know, the aromas and the tastes, you know, come through the podcast medium. But unfortunately, technology hasn’t quite progressed to that point here in 2026. At least not yet. But I do know where I’m going right after this recording. I do know where I’m going right after this recording. I’m gonna go get one. Go ahead, Sarah, I cut you off.

Sarah Holland: Um, no, no worries. Um, but we, we do the classic baking process with the English muffins. We cook them on a griddle. Um, traditionally, uh, from what I’ve learned is that English muffins, it’s, it’s more like a batter when they’re made. That’s why they’re round, because they’re usually cooked in like a metal ring. Or in, you know, like a special pan. But ours is a dough that we roll out using our dough sheeter, um, and, and they’re, they’re cut into squares. And it wasn’t really like rocket science. I was really just trying to cut waste. And so instead of cutting them into circles, which creates a lot of waste on the dough, uh, we just take a pizza wheel and just cut them into squares.

Liam Dempsey: So you’re, you’re in the Artisan Exchange, you’re making 3 products, you’ve got the muffins, you’ve got the bread, you’ve got the, uh, the bagels at the time, making bagels. And now you got to figure out, how am I going to actually sell these, right? So, how did you go about actually selling? What was that like from getting beyond making them and having a production line, if you will to getting them to somewhere someone could give you money for them? Talk about that, please.

Sarah Holland: Yeah, so I applied to Growing Roots Farmers Market. I applied to a lot of different farmers’ markets, and Growing Roots was the only one that responded to me as being a nobody. They took a chance on me and be forever grateful for that. But that was, that was how I got the platform. At the time I was vending at their West Reading Farmers Market and their Downingtown Farmers Market. And that was kind of how I got started. 

And then I started doing doorstep deliveries. And so now I have all these platforms to sell things on, which was really— the doorstep deliveries were really just advertised from social media and from word of mouth. And so I decided that I needed another item. So then having this dough sheeter was, was the first piece of equipment that I actually spent real money on. It was expensive, but, uh, I needed it for the English muffins. So then it’s like, well, I need to make croissants. So then I taught myself how to make croissants, the butterfolds, and then created like 5 or 6 products from croissant dough and from traditional Danish dough, um, to sell pastries. So then we were now, you know, we had our English muffins, we had our sourdough, and now we have pastries, which is like really cool. There’s a lot of small micro bakeries out there. That do, you know, trying to do their thing. But nobody at the time, in my size, I guess, was doing what I was doing. And I was, I was killing myself. But, you know, it’s— look, it all worked out. So it’s fine.

Erik Gudmundson: And I can tell you that we had some elephant ears that you had in the Downingtown Farmers Market a while ago. And yeah, they were, they were a big hit. Uh, after, after we got home, I know that. But, um, let’s stick with your career journey before I get distracted by food again. And, uh, so you’re, you’re— you spent a year selling your muffins, breads, and croissants at local farmers markets, and then you moved to a brick-and-mortar bakery in Eagleview. So how did that come about, and what was that process like for you? Because that sounds like a big step to me.

Sarah Holland: Yeah, um, well, I’m a very impulsive person, and I wanted the brick and mortar before I went to the Artisan Exchange. But I was— I was more terrified. I was terrified to quit my job, but so that was like a big deal. But I did that, and I was like, all right, well, let’s— let’s just see what I can do. 

And so I started at the Artisan Exchange, and then the job that I quit was for a company called Stove and Co., and they have quite a few restaurants in the Chester County area. And one of them was in Eagleview Town Center. And so, um, I always knew about this location that we currently have. It was the last location in Town Center that was vacant.

So, um, having worked for that company for 7 years, I was familiar with the, you know, the people that work in, uh, in Eagleview, the, the realtor, the developers, the landlord. And they took a chance on me. And having only a year in business, they worked with me to, you know, negotiate a lease and to get me in here so I can do my thing. 

And it was, it was really nice because once again, someone believed in me, and look what I did. It’s kind of like going through life on like the seat of your pants and just like, you know, taking a chance at every corner. And it just always seems to work out, which I’m just like, I’m not waiting for my luck to run out. I, uh, but I, I, you know, I feel like good things happen if, you know, just keep trying.

Liam Dempsey: So that’s interesting because as you’re taking this, this exciting risk with brick and mortar, more and more we’re seeing food trucks, and they are, I don’t know, culturally very accepted. A lot of people like them. They have— they can do really great food, and they can kind of go anywhere. I wonder if you could wave your magic wand and do a food truck rather than brick and mortar, would you have done it differently?

Sarah Holland: Um, no, I think I would still have done the brick and mortar because I can’t do bread in a food truck. I would still need, you know, all of the space that I have to do bread and pastry production. Um, you know, we do have a breakfast and lunch cafe here, and that would do really well in a food truck

But to segue into something else, last year I started a catering business called Good Girls on the Go, and we are everything but the truck. So we have a tent set up, I have a Blackstone, we have coolers, and, you know, we set everything up per the health department requirements, but it—— the cool thing about us is that it allows us to be in the event, in the grass, with the other vendors, with the community and the people walking around. And so I prefer that over a food truck any day. You get a food truck, you’re stuck up on the road, like, and the actual event is in the park. Like, that’s where the people are.

Erik Gudmundson: You can be more integrated that way, too. People don’t have to, like, step away from the people and everything else they’re enjoying about the event to go think about food. Uh, so it’s a— Yeah, that’s 100%. That’s a good way to think about it.

Um, on this show, we’ve heard a lot about the challenges restaurant owners face hiring good team members. Uh, how many people work for you, and how do you go about hiring? I’m wondering about the, the hiring challenges that you experience in this economy today.

Sarah Holland: Um, that’s good. Uh, so depending on the time of year, like right now is our slower season. I have between like 10 and 12 employees in the summertime and into the fall. That’s our busier season. I have anywhere from like 15 to 20 employees. 

There’s a lot of different aspects of the business. So we have, you know, the people that are cooks that work in the café, and then we have our overnight bakers, we have our counter staff, and then we have farmers market staff, and then we have, you know, the staff that works these special catering events that we do.

So there’s— there’s a lot of moving parts. I just don’t— I don’t want people to think that we have like 20 people working in this tiny bakery. The dynamic of the staff is really what makes the business run like a well-oiled machine. Um, everybody gets along. Everyone isn’t best friends, but, um, there’s a sense of respect. And I created that by eliminating all of the traditional restaurant rhetoric, like the front of house and back of house barriers. You get tips, I don’t. You get paid more than me.

Um, Everybody that works here gets paid a livable wage, and we do collect tips from our customers, and the tips are shared among everyone equally. Whether you’re working the counter, whether you’re a dishwasher, whether you’re the overnight baker who’s working when the customers aren’t even there, it doesn’t matter. It’s— you know, everyone is equal and there’s no hierarchy. It’s kind of like the, you know, the person shaping the dough is just as important as the person cooking the eggs. And then that removes that negativity.

Um, is, you know, I’ve worked in many restaurants, and it’s toxic. It’s a very toxic environment, or at least it used to be 10 years ago. But, um, we don’t have any of that here. Uh, I don’t tolerate it. Everyone knows that I don’t tolerate it. And, you know, you don’t have to be like chipper and, you know, having rainbows come out of you, but, um, it’s, you know, we— there’s just a sense of respect that everyone comes here to work. The staff likes what they’re doing, and the customers can see it. And it makes the customers feel good when they walk in the door and, you know, they actually feel like they’re welcomed by someone who is, like, truly welcoming them.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah. And I’ll weigh in on that. That caught my attention the first time I went into your bakery, and this is before I even knew who you were, that you were the owner, that you were— you know, I didn’t know you at all. I’d heard of the bakery probably on social media, and there was a— there was a warmth to it and a welcomeness to it, uh, and that’s— that’s not easy to create necessarily, so congrats on that.

Sarah Holland: Yeah, thank you.

Liam Dempsey: Let’s talk about your work day. Uh, you shared earlier in the early days when you were out at the Artisan Exchange, you were killing yourself trying to do all the things and get all the things done. And I get it, it’s a new business, you got to put in the time, and there’s not enough cash to bring other people in, and you’re kind of worried, will this work, will this work?

But you’re beyond that now, right? You’ve got a team, and it’s somewhere between 10 and 20, depending on what’s happening. So you’re the owner of the business, you’ve got a bunch of different revenue streams and places to work. What do you do every day? What, what keeps you busy when you’re coming in Monday through Sunday, or Sunday through Sunday? What do you do all day and all week?

Sarah Holland: Um, so every week my schedule is different. Um, I try to schedule myself a different shift every week as best as I can, just so that I can still have that finger on the pulse, so that I still— the staff still feels connected to me. By no means am I a business owner who works from home. I try to pretend that I am, but it’s not— it’s impossible. So, yeah, like, next week I’m working the overnight baker shift. Uh, this morning I opened the line in the kitchen, and I was cooking breakfast all morning. Um, it just— it’s good for me to see as a business owner to make sure that not only is everyone, you know, doing the quality that I expect, but it’s also for the staff to feel connected to me. Like, I still care about them.

Um, even though I’m not like working beside them every day, I have stepped away, I say that I was 100% in the dirt with them the first year. And then last year, I kind of stepped away, and I started to try and— to grow the business and work on the business instead of in the business.

And we’ve had some hiccups along the way, I’m not going to lie. But overall, that’s why, like, I kind of worked my schedule now so then I can still, like, check in with everybody. On a personal level, on a performance level, and make everyone still feel like connected.

Erik Gudmundson: As we’re talking today, and as I’ve, I’ve stopped in the market and things, um, I can see, and hopefully our listeners can hear, the sense of fulfillment you feel, uh, when you’re talking about coming up with new offerings. And I know from your science and chemistry comments, I suspect you also probably really enjoy the systems, uh, creating the systems required to bring those new offerings to market. Um, what systems, uh, that you create, uh, bring you the most sense of satisfaction and joy?

Sarah Holland: Um, well, you’re right to say Science. I, I would say any kind of new procedure or recipe. Um, as the seasons change, the sourdough changes. And we have to adjust to that. So teaching the staff how to go with the ebb and flows of the times and temperatures of things, as far as feeding the starter, or, you know, the starter needs more time to rise. And I can create systems for that. And it’s more just like a— it, it doesn’t land because it’s never consistent. 

So sourdough is a living thing, but when— once you have an employee that understands how sourdough works, it, um, the— it’s like the light bulb goes off and you can like see it in their eyes and they’re like, oh, okay, I, I understand it. So then once we get to that point, then it’s like, okay, let’s create a new bread flavor. And then we all kind of collaborate and decide what bread flavor we want to do, or, you know, are we going to do the garden loaf, which is a tomato bread that we, that we do in the summertime during tomato season. 

And, you know, it’s, it’s more just like once we understand what the starter and the sourdough needs, then we can start having fun, um, after like the, the science work is done. But yeah, I would say creating a new loaf, I think, is my favorite. My favorite thing to create. You can, you can turn croissant into anything and and call it something new. That doesn’t require a lot of work, but anything that has to do with bread or like-new bread things excites me.

Liam Dempsey: Well, in the name of Science, I would just like to volunteer Erik and myself as willing taste testers as you refine these new recipes and loaves. We would be willing to put ourselves on the line and help give some feedback. Constructive feedback, if that’s of value to you.

Erik Gudmundson: Thank you, Liam. You’re about the 1,050th person.

Liam Dempsey: Probably I am. Probably I am. Probably I am.

Um, so any occupation in the food service industry is tough. Certainly that’s a reputation. It’s a lot of hard work. It’s a lot of long hours. And you’re not new to the restaurant industry by any means. You’ve shared that you’ve, you’ve worked a long time before you started on your own business. But what I wonder is how did your expectation of the hours required to succeed as a bakery— a restaurant owner compare with your actual experience of being that? So you expected to do this, turns out it was— you tell us.

Sarah Holland: Um, for me, it was exactly what I expected. Um, you know, the, years that I was working when I was a chef, you’re— not even expected, but you’re required to work like 50, 60 hours a week. So, um, maybe like 60 hours during like a holiday or busy season, but minimum 50 hours. Um, so that was not a surprise to me. I can say that I was conditioned, um, for years prior that like working a 50 or 60-hour week was not a big deal. Um, but it’s funny though, because, you know, you hear people say like, “Oh, I want to work for myself. I don’t want to work all these hours for someone else,” or like, “I’m going to open my own business so I don’t have to work as much.” And then, like, here we are, we’re opening our own business, and we’re working twice as much. 

But, you know, it’s like, there go I. But, um, yes, it’s— I’m happy to do it. It’s a different kind of work. It’s, um, I really truly enjoy it. They say that, you know, when work starts to feel like work, it’s time to find a new job. And that, that, you know, I’m almost 40 years old. That’s never happened to me.

Erik Gudmundson: Well, I enjoyed you sharing the journey of your career that got you to this point. And I’m certainly enjoying the success and the taste of your success when I, when I, when I eat your products. But tell us what’s next on your plan for business growth. I can sense that your entrepreneurial spirit, you know, is going to be hard to confine, even if you’ve got something going really, really well. And you mentioned the catering business, but, you know, maybe it’s that, maybe it’s something different. I’d like to hear your answer.

Sarah Holland: Sure. So when I opened the bakery almost 2 years ago, we outgrew the space probably in month 3. We, we hit our cap, we are, you know, flapping our wings and hitting the ceiling. And so ever since then, I knew that I needed a bigger space. Um, I’ve been shopping for a bigger space for, you know, I would say almost a year now. Um, but I’m in the process of, you know, securing funding so that we can expand. Uh, I would like to open a large production space and then, um, continue to grow from there. So then I would remove, um, bakery production from the Eagle View location, and then we’d be able to expand the café menu and do more creative things for breakfast and lunch. And then we would still have the pastries here, we would deliver every day.

But then having that large production space would allow me to then expand to do more farmers’ markets, to have more wholesale accounts, to be more accessible for customers, um, you know, in different stores. Um, and then, you know, who knows? And then have maybe a second location. I don’t know. I don’t wanna bite my tongue.

Liam Dempsey: I’m loving watching your face as you’re talking through and thinking through these ideas. You are absolutely focused on growth. I love it. I love it.

You’ve, you’ve shared how, how hard you work in the hours, and how much it took to get to where you’re at. And made me think back to our conversation with Melinda Shaw, who opened up and owns and runs the Hangry Bear Creamery down in Kennett Square. Fantastic. And I’ll say it again for our listeners, they do flights of ice cream. Flights of ice cream. I love that.

Sarah Holland: I actually know— I know Melinda. She’s a wonderful person. Um, my partner and I actually took one of her ice cream-making classes. And, uh, I’ll be her advocate. It was amazing. And you literally get to take home, like, 8 pints of your custom-flavored ice cream. She’s— her programs are so cool. Uh, if you haven’t been there, it’s in Kennett Square. You need to check her out.

Liam Dempsey: Here, here. One of the things that she shared in our conversation was that, as a business owner in the restaurant space, is that it’s really hard to get away. There’s always another task, another chore, and you’re, you know, you’re talking about there’s another opportunity for growth, and that doesn’t come out with a lot of work. But when you get away, are you able to get away? And if so, what do you— what do you do in your downtime? What’s a— what’s a non-work-related hobby for Sarah Holland?

Sarah Holland: Um, I do get away sometimes. It is, uh, it is hard for me to turn the anxiety off when I am away, but I, I do try. Um, but for me, I like to go hiking. I like to do outdoors things. Um, before I actually dug my heels into the business, I would do like overnight backpacking trips. I’ve done a portion of the Appalachian Trail. I’ve done rim to rim at the Grand Canyon. Those are like the kind of mind-clearing adventures that I like to go on.

But now every year I try to go somewhere national park related where I can take my dog and, you know, kind of have like a little family getaway. So that’s, that’s what I like. I like being outside, peaceful, just relaxing.

Erik Gudmundson: Philly is a region rich in food. Is there a particular cultural or geographic influence behind some of the products you make? We’re wondering if being so close to Pennsylvania Dutch cooking and Amish markets helps or challenges your business.

Sarah Holland: Um, I, I don’t really— it doesn’t help or hurt my business being close to Pennsylvania Dutch. There are Amish growers who come to the farmers market. We welcome them. They bring, you know, their baked goods. It’s— that’s them, and they do their own thing. They’re known for their whoopie pies, and I’m, you know, I will buy one every time that they have them. I, you know, keep that to them. You know, like, they— I don’t try to do the things that they do because I did grow up eating whoopie pies, and they’re, you know, have a special spot in my heart. 

But we do try to— Um, source locally whenever, whenever we possibly can. That is something that is very important to me. Um, during the summer when everything is in season, I buy everything for the cafe, for our pastry fillings. We make everything from scratch here. Um, and it’s more, it’s more just like to support the farmers. 

Um, we do— I don’t even do wholesale when everything’s in season. I just go to the market and shop for the bakery. And then we do, you know, they, they buy my bread and it’s just like the relationship of, of the vendors at the farmer’s market. It’s more just like we support each other and we all, we all drink from the same water. 

But I would say local is important for the community, for, you know, growth in this economy. Um, even in the bakery, we have local art that’s on the walls from Chester County artists, and they, they’re for sale. All of the art in the bakery is for sale, and I just offer them a free space to show their artwork, um, as to where otherwise, you know, they would have to pay to be in a studio, or maybe they’re not big enough to even be in a studio and they just want to share their artwork with, with people, and, and So if you come to the bakery, you’ll see like each wall is like a different style of art. It’s a different artist. It’s, it’s really unique when you come in. The vibe is, is kind of unmatched.

Um, what else do we do that’s local? Um, we source all of our teas locally. There’s a— obviously, no one grows tea around here, but, um, there’s a company called Iri Vida out of Westchester, and she has a very unique business. Um, grinds her own spices and does everything fresh. She toasts and grinds everything at her location in Westchester. And we have a whole line of health teas at the bakery. 

Um, being next to a coffee shop, we don’t try to compete with them. We just try to do our own thing. And so we, uh, we have more of like tea services here. Um, we’re actually doing, uh, high tea tomorrow for Valentine’s Day. I know this is going to be released after Valentine’s Day, but we will do a different high tea for whatever relevant holiday is coming up. 

And so, so that’s another local thing that we do. I would just, you know, all of our eggs that we get are local from Lindenhof Farm. Our milk is local. I could, I could give you like a whole list, but I’m not going to go on.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah, no, that’s good. Let’s, let’s keep that focus locally because I wonder if you can share um, a local business or a local nonprofit that more folks should know about? about? 

Sarah Holland: Um, I would say, uh, Chester County, um, food bank is number one. Um, if you don’t know about it, you should, uh, do some research. They are huge advocates for food insecurities in Chester County and you know, just being available, I’m really good friends with a lot of the people that work there, but the— we partner with them at different times. They teach a class that helps teach people who otherwise wouldn’t have learned certain life skills, like cooking. They come to the bakery, and we do, like, a demonstration. And depending on the day, I’ll, you know, one year they, they shaped croissants, they shaped bread, which try to show ’em like, you know, work— workforce, I forget what it’s called, workforce development, something like that where they do that. 

So they don’t just, they don’t just make, you know, Meals on Wheels. They, they’re so involved in the community, and they have their own food truck that goes into communities where people can— I think they call it the mobile farmer’s market. Um, there’s just so many programs. So if you can’t donate money, donate your time, um, and support them. They support so many people in Chester County. And I think now they need help now more than ever, um, with funding issues and things like that.

Erik Gudmundson: That’s a great perspective. And we’ve had Andy Yount, the CEO of the Chester County Food Bank, on in a previous episode. And everybody, uh, you’re not the first one to suggest them because they, they touch so many people in the county in so many different ways, and everybody has different programs of the food bank that they want to highlight. So it was a great answer. Thank you. Um, are you hiring? And if so, where can folks learn about what positions you need filled?

Sarah Holland: Um, we are always hiring. Um, there’s always a position that can be improved upon, um, or we can make something more efficient. But the— right now we’re hiring for counter staff, and we’re hiring for farmers market staf,f probably closer to like June. And then we’ll start building from there for the summer and fall times.

Erik Gudmundson: And are you looking for people maybe like home from college, or are you looking for a particular age group or, you know, what kind of demographic would be something you’d particularly cater towards?

Sarah Holland: Someone with baking experience for working in the bakery or some kind of customer service experience. College kids are great because they’re seasonal and they’re home during the time that we need them the most. So I’m not opposed to training a 3 or 4-month employee because that’s, you know, it’s hard to hire people that we then have to lay off or cut their hours and, you know, that’s— That’s kind of a— that’s, that’s a tough part of the business too, is that seasonal aspect of it.

Liam Dempsey: Sarah, how can our local community support you and GoodGirls Bakery?

Sarah Holland: Um, come and see me. Yeah, come and see me at the bakery. Come and see me at the farmer’s market. Um, they can follow us and help us find more followers on social media. But yeah, I would just say, bring your friends here. Even if you just get a coffee, just come and hang out and feel the vibe that we’ve been talking about and, you know, fall in love with us.

Erik Gudmundson: Well, Sarah Holland, owner of Good Girls Bakery, where can listeners connect with you aside from stopping into your bakery or catching you at a farmer’s market? And, you know, tell us— put it this way, ask the question in a very specific way. Where can they find and where you can be found?

.

Sarah Holland: Oh, that’s great. So, uh, anywhere on our social media, um, Facebook or Instagram, it’s Good Girls Bakery with two Y’s. And you can also go to our website, goodgirlsbakery.com, and sign up for our newsletter. We send out every week where we’re going to be, what we’re doing, what our specials are, and what you can expect from us. Um, and yeah, I guess as well as coming to see my face or come and see us at the farmer’s market, you can get all the information you need.

Liam Dempsey: Sarah, thanks so much for joining us today. I am very excited to come see your face probably as soon as we hit the stop button on the recording, because I need some food. Thanks so much for your time, your effort, and your energy.

Sarah Holland: Thank you guys so much for having me. This was a blast.

Erik Gudmundson: Great. Well, thank you for coming on, and thank you also to my co-hos,t Liam Dempsey. I’m Erik Gudmundson. 

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