Making Local Cider from Branch to Bottle with Olga and Brian Dressler

Liam Dempsey: Welcome to Start Local, where we talk with business owners, leaders of nonprofits, and other members of our community focused on doing business in and around Chester County, Pennsylvania. Each episode will provide insight into the local business scene and tell you about opportunities to connect with and support businesses and nonprofits in your local area.

Erik Gudmundson: The Southern Chester County Chamber of Commerce promotes trade, commerce, industry, and sustainable economic development while supporting and growing marketplace. The Chamber is proud to partner with the Start Local podcast to raise the profile of businesses and nonprofits throughout Chester County. Learn more about the chamber at scccc.com, that’s sccccc.com 

Liam Dempsey: I’m Liam Dempsey, and I’m here today with my trusty co-host Erik Gudmundson.

Erik Gudmundson: Hey.

Liam Dempsey: Hey, Erik. How are you?

Erik Gudmundson: Liam, I am doing well.

Liam Dempsey: I like the sound of that. I am doing less well. I am fighting a little cold today. You can probably hear it in my voice. So if I say anything terribly amiss or I randomly end the recording because my head’s a little foggy, I apologize in advance. 

Folks, today we are speaking with Olga and Brian Dressler. Together, they are the owners and cider makers of Dressler Estate Ciders. Hello and welcome, Olga and Brian.

Olga Dressler: Thanks for having us.

Brian Dressler: Thank you. It’s an honor.

Erik Gudmundson: It’s a pleasure to have you here. That is for sure. We’re excited to get into some questions.

Liam Dempsey: And I will share just because she might make some noise later on in our wonderful conversation here today, that Olga and Brian have their little baby girl with them, and she’s quietly sleeping now. But as babies are want to do, she will wake when she wants to wake. We might hear her make some noise. That’s where we’re coming from today. Let’s get into it. Let’s get into it. 

Dressler Estate has earned a reputation as a maker of really fine local cider. We’ll go into your entire cider-making process in more detail later in this conversation. But tell us briefly, if you will, about the varieties of cider, the varieties of cider that you are currently producing.

Brian Dressler: I would say dry is certainly our specialty. We are inspired by European cider makers who are really take the time to honor the fruit and to make that come forward. We use less of flavors and that type of thing than some of our American counterparts. We prefer really just to let that apple flavor come through.

Liam Dempsey: And then just as a quick follow-up there, sorry to jump in here. Tell us about the individual product lines, just so folks might have seen them. Oh, that’s their cider.

Brian Dressler: Yeah. Modern Sparkling. That’s our best seller. That’s our champagne-style cider. That one was really fun. That one actually ferments and carbonates in the bottle with a French champagne yeast. That one it has, and it doesn’t, actually we don’t disgorge it from the bottle so that yeast remains in the bottom of the bottle in the pet nat style, if you’re familiar with the wine world of doing things. That one, it has a nice, lovely, nutty brioche-type flavor in the background. All those classic champagne flavors you know and love. 

And then an Apple Note at the heart of it. That one, I’d say is our wildly most popular bestseller. See, probably behind that is the Golden Rose. That one we ferment with whole strawberries, all local strawberries, all local apple juice, and they ferment together. We don’t use any extracts, flavorings, purees, anything like that. That one has a gentle kiss of sweetness at the end to let that berry flavor really come forward. 

We also have the Valley Creek Field blend. We grow those apples ourselves, a few miles away at Valley Creek Orchard. I’m sure we’ll talk more about that later. That one uses some more tannic cider apples, some specific cider apples that they use a little bit more commonly overseas. 

And we’ve got a couple of other ones as well.

Olga Dressler: Yeah, yeah. So Brian’s kind of touching on it, but we sort of have our core products and then we produce a few seasonal varieties as well. So from time to time we have other products like Outpost, which is a barrel age cider. We like to produce and release for the winter. 

And we always dip our toes into some experimental ciders as well. So, we have in the past produced some sours. So we like to focus, like Brian said, on dry. That was why we got into cider making. But we like to affectionately say that we want to have some. A little bit of something for everyone.

Erik Gudmundson: Well, it’s interesting that you’re involved in the farming and the harvesting of the apples in addition to actually making the cider. So, tell us a little bit more about that. I’m curious what varieties of apples you grow in its entirety. And just how involved truly are you in the farming and harvesting process? Because that’s a very different animal than actually just making cider.

Olga Dressler: Yeah, yeah. Well, I’ll say we work to sort of the summary as we work to manage the orchard along with the property owner. He had planted this particular site a few years before we met him, and he’s invited us in to care for the trees. And then we act as the exclusive producer from the orchard. So it’s a very give-and-take relationship. We are putting some time in and he is as well. 

And then we have that amazing benefit of being able to produce an exclusive product from those apples. But Brian and I have taken coursework, and I’m sure we can talk about that. We learned how to prune, tree selection, and, you know, caring for the trees, all of the science behind what that means, and there’s a lot of information there. 

But, you know, we. That looks like being involved in the orchard, not just during harvest period, but even in the winter when the trees are dormant. You know, we’re out there cutting branches, training them, you know, pulling them back or down to output, you know, certain hormones. You can talk in plenty of detail about that.

Brian Dressler: Yeah, so we really do branch to bottle, we like to say. So we are involved with the pruning, the training of the trees. We do the harvesting. That is, I’d say that’s probably the hardest part. 

We don’t do the spraying. Our friend Bruce, the property owner, he has that under control. He sprays for fungus. There are some fungus that are just very harmful to trees in this warmer climate that we have. So, he sprays that when appropriate.

And then we will take the apples to the press house, we’ll have them pressed and bring them back, pump them into our tanks, ferment them, age them, and bottle them. So we really do it all for that process, that particular product.

Erik Gudmundson: Yeah, you really do. And it sounds like you have the right thing to call it to branch to bottle, which I think is a great catchphrase there. Tell us, though, about those different varieties. What different varieties are you growing there in the orchard?

Brian Dressler:  So, we have Winesap, we have Gold Rush, we have Golden Russet, we have Liberty, Wixen, Dabonnet, Kingston Black, Hughes Crab, Harrison. And we haven’t gotten much fruit. They’re rather new. But a new variety that’s been planted called Granniwinkle.

Olga Dressler: There’s two more that haven’t fruited yet either. Yarlington Mill, which I think we’ll get our first harvest from this year. And then I think, planted last year’s Porter’s Perfection.

Brian Dressler: That’s right.

Olga Dressler: And they, each of the varieties, contributes different qualities to the cider-making process and then ultimately the finished cider. So, necessity, things that are necessary for the cider making processes, acid, sugar, and tannins are more for the finish qualities. And each apple brings a different balance of those qualities to the picture.

Liam Dempsey: With all those varieties, I feel like we could have a Start Local cider podcast where we just go through each apple in great detail. But let’s move on.

I want to talk about the name of your business, Dressler Estate. You both, you’re based in Downingtown, and there’s a very specific and interesting story to how you chose the name and why you decided to open in Downingtown. Will you share that story with us, please?

Brian Dressler: Would you take that one?

Olga Dressler: Yeah. So we were exploring the idea of opening more in the model that you would see with breweries over the decades, where it was in an industrial park, maybe you know, having sort of that commercial space. And we realized that was going to be a little bit challenging from a cash flow perspective. We were really just dipping our toes into this idea, and we wanted to be sustainable about how we were going to approach exploring starting this business. 

So, after entertaining that idea for a brief period of time, we realized that it might be beneficial to start our business as a home-based occupation, borrowing from the idea of how European winemakers, or even winemakers in California, produce where it’s estate based. 

And that’s really where the name was born. Especially when we purchased the house. We were still toying with the name for a while, and we had lots of names that ended up in sort of the back pocket that we might pull out for other things, but that was the one that really stuck and settled.

And Brian also likes to say that, you know, our name, our last name, Dressler, being a part of it is really important too.

Brian Dressler: I think it is. It’s a mark of pride for us. There are a lot of breweries or wineries out there that might be called something. They’re called fanciful names. Red Cat, Blue Dog. I’m sure some of them make some great products, but they can kind of hide behind that. 

Our identity is front and center with that. That’s our name. And it would be for us a mark of shame if we put anything that are best in that bottle with our name on it. So that’s really been our ethos is if it, if it really isn’t the best we can put out there, we just don’t put it out. 

So that’s really kept us true to that vision for quality over the years. And I think our customers have really come to know that if it has that name on the bottle, it’s going to be good. So…

Erik Gudmundson: Well, that holistic experience is something we heard from a recent guest when we were at Vala Vineyards, and sticking with that wine theme, a little unfamiliar with cider making might think it’s much like brewing beer, but with apples. However, as we understand it, as you alluded to a little earlier, making cider is more like making wine. So, would you give us a few moments to give us basically the nickel tour of how you make cider in audio form for our listeners?

Brian Dressler: Certainly. So, cider making at its essence is you are just fermenting apple juice. Just like with winemaking, you are fermenting grape juice. So they’ll have a little bit of a different process between grapes and apples, you more gently crush grapes because they’re a softer fruit to prepare them for pressing. Where of apples, you need something a little bit more aggressive with teeth to it. It’s more of a grinding or shredding process. 

But then at the end, you’re going to oppress and you’re putting the apples. It’s called pomace, actually. Whereas with grapes, it’s called must. So you’re taking that pomace and you’re putting it under pressure, and then it’s releasing that juice. 

And then from there you take it and you will ferment it with yeast. And then it’s really just undergoing an alcoholic fermentation where the yeast is consuming the sugars present in the juice. And from that, it’s creating ethanol, which is alcohol and carbon dioxide. 

Brewing, it does that process as well, where you are still doing that alcoholic fermentation with the yeast. But on the front end, you actually need to make more like a very, there’s gonna be a very crude analogy, but it’s almost like a very, very thin oatmeal where you’re heating up grains in water. You’re making a boil, and at that point, the sugars are being released from those grains, and then you have your wort, and then that’s what is the beginning ingredient for beer. 

So we have none of that up front, which is great for us, because with our little garage fermentation space, we can actually pack a lot more fermentation vessels in there, and we don’t need to have a brewhouse taking up half to most of that space.

Erik Gudmundson: Thank you for providing that background. It’s clear your knowledge is very deep when it comes to cider. And when I think of beer, the origins of beer, I think of Germany and I think of Czech Republic. When I think of wine, I think of France. Is there a place in the world that’s really like a capital of cider making that you went to learn this kind of stuff, or how did you acquire all this knowledge?

Olga Dressler: Oh, well, we spend a lot of time educating ourselves in the region. We haven’t traveled internationally to experience cider. But that’s not to say that we haven’t experienced international cider throughout the years and, you know, in many different ways, whether that be, you know, enjoying products or, you know, meeting with makers. 

But most of our coursework was done through Penn State extension, but we did also took a key training that produced a certificate for both of us through a partnership with Cornell. And we were up in the Finger Lakes region for that. It’s now transformed. It was under a different name previously, but it’s called the Cider Institute of North America, and they offer certificate courses, but also continuing education for cider makers. 

Here was in partnership with a consultant and cider maker in the uk. He shared his extensive knowledge, and that kind of touches on the point that there’s a very rich history abroad for cider making, and each region has its very interesting and different styles. So that was very informative.

Erik Gudmundson: And I’m sure everywhere makes the best cider and the best wine, and the best beer. I left Italy out, but of course, they really can’t be left out of winemaking, that’s for sure.

Olga Dressler: Yeah.

Brian Dressler: Actually, people don’t know it, but the Bicapita, the greatest consumer of cider in the world, is Ireland. People usually think of the United Kingdom, but the Irish they actually blow them out of the water with it. And there’s evidence that there’s actually cider making that was taking place in Ireland with the native apples that were descendants of crab apples, even prior to the Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland. So this is millennia ago, so pretty fascinating.

Liam Dempsey: Well, having enjoyed more than probably my fair share of cider pints of cider in Ireland, I can see, I can share that it is definitely quite popular over there. Definitely quite popular.

Let’s talk about your tasting room. Erik, Joe, and I, from the Start Local podcast, we were in there a few happy hours ago, a few Fridays ago, and it was just delightful to see the place come to life and to be able to have your cider in its home, if I can call it that. 

And just over the recent Memorial Day weekend, you folks celebrated your grand opening. So tell us about that. When did you open the tasting room doors, and what’s your vision? What’s your vision for it?

Brian Dressler: We opened, I believe, towards the end of February.

Olga Dressler: The 22nd.

Brian Dressler: 22Nd. And we still have the same hours. Right now it is Friday from 5 to 9, Saturday from 2 to 9. We’re going to grow those with time, but we’ve had those hours since then leading up to the grand opening. 

Our daughter was born in mid-March, so we didn’t want to go too hard with the promotion and then have to put a giant like, hey, we need to pause things here. So we wanted to go for a little bit more of a slow opening. And then we just celebrated our grand opening this past weekend, Memorial Day weekend. And that was a great success. The place was packed. We had to have a few friends hop behind the bar and help us pour and wash dishes, glasses, and that type of thing. So that was really nice to see the place packed. I enjoyed that a lot.

Olga Dressler: Yeah. And our vision for the space is obviously to act as a tasting room for our products, but we do want it to be an experience where people can come, bring a group of friends, and enjoy themselves. 

So, we do have other products that are not our ciders. We carry beer from East Branch Brewing Company. They’re right down the street from us in Downingtown. We have wines from Chaddsford Winery at the moment, and a couple of non-alcoholic options that we hope to expand as well in the future. 

We want to make some fun things in-house, you know, made-to-order kind of non alcoholic cocktails. But that gets to the point of what the vision is. We primarily want to be able to produce our cider in that space. And we’re working to move production over from our garage here at the house to the cidery right there on Lancaster Avenue so that people have an experience to see where the product is made.

Most of the experience for the past eight years that we’ve been in business is behind the doors. People really don’t get that chance to see what we’re doing. So we’re really excited to open that up. 

And in addition, we do have a very limited selection of food items. We are carrying kettle corn from Rosie’s. They do the farmer’s market with us. And then we are also making cheese plates to order, featuring some other producers that we do markets with as well.

And we hope to expand our food offerings to potentially include, you know, a sandwich, some salads, maybe pastries. We have a small electric-only kitchen. We’re not looking to start a restaurant. Obviously, we are very passionate about our cider making, but it’s important that people have something to enjoy, a bite to eat with their beverages.

Erik Gudmundson: I imagine that’s particularly important with your dry ciders, just because dry often needs to be paired with a little bit of food. So you can really taste the full depth and appreciate all the depth that’s in that dry cider. 

I’m thinking of the cider market and I’m thinking of big names like Woodchuck, Strongbow, Bulmers, and they’re all sweet ciders. And down east and Dressler Estate are gaining a following and acclaim as makers of dry cider, which I think is wonderful. That’s my personal preference, where my palate takes me. So why did you choose to make dry cider in this world of sweet ciders which we live?

Brian Dressler: We think that the apple flavor and character truly shine best with dry. There are situations where maybe a little bit of sugar might help balance things out. But for the most part, we’ve really found that just sweet, for the sake of sweet, can be a mask, make things a little bit one-dimensional.

It also isn’t, it doesn’t really lend itself to cereal enjoyment. You may enjoy a glass of it, but beyond that, maybe a second. It’s not something that you want to have an afternoon like a session with, you know, you’ll probably switch to something drier.

Whereas if you have something drier, this is kind of how we prefer our beers too, and our wines. You can really enjoy that throughout the day, without it really kind of just creeping up on you.

Liam Dempsey: So, folks might be interested in making their own cider, right? Certainly. I’ve made a little bit of beer in my past, and I now make websites for a living (if you can kind of guess where my beer-making efforts unfolded, how that all developed). But the two of you have a really interesting little story, a very cute story  about how you got into cider making. Would one of you please share that with us?

Brian Dressler: Yes. So we have to fast forward back to 2009 when we met. I was in Drexel University completing my Mechanical Engineering degree. And Olga was at Temple’s Tyler School of Art, and she was completing her Bachelor of Fine Arts in photography. 

And after graduation, we went into our respective careers, and you’d really think there’s not a lot of overlap between a mechanical engineer and a photographer that went into web design and marketing-type career. 

But at the core of both of those disciplines, the desire to create something. So we both have these very creative personalities, and we actually really do love spending time with each other. We were looking for a hobby nights and weekends to enjoy together. We always loved cooking, but we wanted something different in addition to cooking.

Of course, this tied in pretty well with it. So we’d also witnessed the craft Brewery boom of the early 2000s, particularly in the greater Philadelphia area where we grew up. 

And it was also myself being in manufacturing. I met all these guys who were retiring, they were getting into retirement age. And they talked about when they were younger, in the early 70s and 80s, there’s this pride that they had that they would make these products and then you could go and buy it on the shelf, you know, down the street. And those products would have to last a lifetime and maybe even go on to your children and grandchildren

But there was this offshoring that happened in the 80s and the 90s with our manufacturing, and a lot of those jobs dried up, and a lot of the products went overseas, and they had the sadness about how that was no longer the case. And I love the intersection of you could make something that was made here, and then you could enjoy it as well.

So I’d always had this interest in brewing, but at the time we were living in this little second-floor, one-bedroom apartment with a galley kitchen. And she said, Brian, there isn’t room for a coil and a burner and all that. Can we simplify this? What can we do to make this easier?

So I did a little more research, and I realized winemaking would cut out all that equipment and all that process. And then I thought to myself, well, cider making is a lot like winemaking is. And we actually have this rich apple heritage right here in Pennsylvania of growing apples. So that really just brings it all home. 

So we got a jug of apple juice from Whole Foods, and we got a little bit of wine yeast from the homebrew shop down the street, put an airlock in it, bubbled away for a few weeks. And she said, I don’t know, this. This is kind of scary. I don’t know if I want to taste this. We might die. I’ve never done anything like this. I said, well, I’m going to try it first. And I told her it was good. 

And a few hours later, when she saw that I didn’t fall over dead, I convinced her to taste it. And she said, it is really good and we’re instantly hooked right then because she really tastes the apple flavor. And it was, it was bubbly, it was delightful, and it was something that we made that we were proud of. 

And we kind of caught that cider-making bug then and pursued it as a hobby for, I’d say, from end of 2012 through 2014. We started just taking the classes for fun. And then we started giving it really serious thought about turning into a business plan in 2015, and incorporated in 2016. Purchased our home at the end of 2015 and did our build-out in the garage at the end of 2016. And our first products were available for sale May of 2017. Yeah.

Erik Gudmundson: That’s an exciting journey. And for where you are right now, you sell your cider at a number of different farmers markets and local events like Cider Fest at the Selma Good Food Festival. 

Two questions here. Where can folks find you selling cider now, aside from your new tasting room in Downingtown, and how does the sales process at a farmer’s market differ from selling at your tasting room? I’m wondering what the customer experience is like in those different environments.

Olga Dressler: Yeah, so we sell currently at three farmers markets. Downingtown Farmers Market, which is right here, walking distance, honestly, from our house, and a tasting room. And then we sell at two markets in Philadelphia, Chestnut Hill Farmers Market and Rittenhouse Farmers Market. So, those for a long time, the better part of eight years, have been our primary source of revenue. 

And we have some really dedicated customers there. But we do also wholesale to some bars and restaurants, less so now on the other side of the pandemic, we shifted things that, you know, put an attention for us on focusing on getting our tasting room open and wanting to, you know, be closer to home. 

But we do have some key accounts. It rotates, but here in Downingtown, to very well-established businesses. East Branch Brewing Company is one of our best customers. They have a dedicated line for our cider there at their brewery. 

And then we have our ciders in on rotation at Station Tap Room at Bottle Room here in Downingtown, and then some accounts in the city, Local 44S in West Philly, they carry our bottles in their bottle shop. And then we rotate in on some restaurants on occasion in the city on draft.

So that touches on the point of how the customer experience differs at the farmer’s market versus our tasting room. We sell by the bottle at the farmer’s market, so folks are coming up, learning about our products, and taking bottles to go to enjoy at their home at a party.

Whereas in the tasting room, the experiences that folks are enjoying the products there. So we’re selling by the glass. We obviously do still have bottles for sale at the tasting room, but the primary means of enjoyment is by the glass on site.

And as I touched on, we do also offer a draft. So we have our products in kegs, and we serve out of those kegs in our tasting room as well. It’s a great means for, you know, product volume. We think that’s a great approach for the term in terms of sustainability. You know, not going through bottles as much.

Brian Dressler: From a cost perspective too. It also helps you. You don’t need to have the labor of putting it in a bottle. You don’t have to pay for that glass, bottle, the cap, the label. So it takes that out of the equation. It helps with your profit margin a bit better. And then also that same volume can command a higher price point when it’s enjoyed on premise versus off premise to go. So that shift in revenue for us has had a big impact on us. So we’re looking forward to growing that for sure.

Erik Gudmundson: Well, thinking about that customer experience where they take home a larger quantity of cider than they would find in a normal glass, how do they typically pair that? Is there a particular food pairing that you suggest? You know, is it a red meat, you know, white meat kind of thing? How do you, how do you approach that?

Olga Dressler: That’s a really good question.

Brian Dressler: I’d say cider is very versatile. It’s much more versatile than people think. I think sometimes people say, you know, beer is maybe great with a burger, fries, maybe something that’s a little fattier. Wine, red wine might be great with red meat. White wine might be better with chicken and fish. Really, cider can fill kind of all of those, can touch on all those categories pretty broadly, which is really fun. 

One of the most exciting things that we like to do is to actually cook with cider as well. So we’ll make pan sauces. We’ll use that cider to deglaze the pan, get that fond up off the bottom of the pan after you’ve, you know, cooked a nice steak in there. And you can make a little pan sauce with that. That’s a lot of fun. Also maybe like a butter cream sauce as well, and serve that with pasta. We like doing that as well at home a lot.

Olga Dressler: Yeah, yeah. I think Brian touched on some key points too, about the versatility of cider and that you, we obviously focus on dry ciders, but you can have dry and sweet options, and that gives the flexibility in terms of pairing for our customers. 

So we have an oak age cider. Our king in arms we had on draft for a couple of weeks until recently. And that can sort of fill the same place as, you know, an oaked wine in that. You can pair it with something a little bit heavier. 

But I think Brian touched on, obviously, you know, making pan sauces and pairing with chicken and fish and things like that. Cider can definitely also fill a place of white wine. But I think the sweet spot there certainly is for cider. It tends to be pairing with pork is sort of my natural thing that I gravitate towards, I think, you know, apples and pork is a really great pairing. We love braising is a really good option for cider as well. But it definitely loves beef as well. But, you know…

Brian Dressler: Also, a cheese plate is great. A little cheese and charcuterie plate. It’s a really just a refreshing, enjoyable beverage to help wash down, you know, the fattiness and the richness of some of those items on the cheese or charcuterie plate, which is great.

Olga Dressler: Yeah.

Erik Gudmundson: And I’m sure cidery is a wonderful alternative for folks who have some sort of gluten allergy or want to be eating on a gluten free basis. Right?

Olga Dressler: Certainly. Yeah. We, you know, produce a naturally gluten free product in that there is, you know, no wheat. But we always tell our customers as well, because of the fact that we produce as a winery, there is no wheat in our facility at all. Whereas, you know, in the case where cider makers, you know, may also be brewers, you know, there may be that experience, you know, where they’re having something that’s produced, you know, in a facility. So if folks are super, you know, sensitive in that way, we are able to say with confidence, you know, that there is no exposure at all, you know, within our production facility. But, yeah.

Brian Dressler: Even the serving of the cider, we have dedicated beer lines and those lines are never going to be used for cider and vice versa. So you don’t need to worry about us having a beer on one line. That keg’s empty, we pop a cider line on there, there’s might be some residual, you know, beer in that line, anything like that. It’s just, you know, strictly cider for those lines only. 

So those that are truly sensitive to those, to gluten and to wheat and grain, they don’t need to worry about when they, that when they order ciders from us at the tasting room.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah, I love that attention to detail and customer focus. That’s great.

We talked a little bit about where folks can buy your ciders and where they can taste them and the like. But I want to kind of stay on that topic for just a minute. And frankly, I had to get away from food because I’m starting to get hungry and talking about sauces and meats and cheeses that wasn’t going to Help me at all.

Where do you folks make your money? And let me ask that another way. I mean, clearly you’re selling cider, but what percentage of revenue comes through the farmer’s markets, perhaps through your new tasting room, some of the other venues where folks can get your cider. Can you, can you speak to that a bit?

Brian Dressler: Well, as we just opened, we don’t have great data on that right now, but as I can speak to what we had prior to our opening and then where we hope to go post opening of our projections, I’d say about 80% of our revenue came from farmers markets prior to our tasting room opening. 

And then the remainder was wholesale and off site events where we do the same thing as the tasting room, where we pour those glasses for enjoyment at that festival and sell it in that format. 

And then we actually hope to invert that going into forward after the tasting room is open and once we really hit maturity with those projections. We don’t hope to actually shrink that 20% of wholesale and off site event events. We hope to keep it, but we hope to grow what we bring home with that tasting room revenue to the point where we’re seeing about 80% of our revenue coming from that and then we’ve got 20% or so coming from those channels. That does two great things for us. 

We really do believe that as a business, they live and die by cash flow. If you can’t pay your bills, you have a problem. Just having those extra channels really helps smooth out some of those lumps that you might see in terms of seasonality with people going on vacation, consumer trends, holidays, etc.

And they also can help as a kind of like a sales lead, so, or a funnel. So people that might not know your brand at all, they might discover you with the farmer’s market or off site event. And then that’s your opportunity to tell them about our tasting room and then bring them in as on premise customers. 

And we’ve actually seen that over the years. We’ve just, in the few months that we’ve been open with our tasting room, we’ve had just a flood of customers come in. And I always like to ask people, how did you find out about our brand? And they’ll say, oh, we met you at an event six years ago. And if you really do make that impression, that good impression, both with your personality, that customer interaction and the product, it can bring in revenue for you down the road in the future. And you might not even know it at the time, but it works for us. And we’ll continue to do so. So we would like to use the farmer’s market and off site events as a means to bring people in there.

Erik Gudmundson: You really put a lot of thought into the marketing and the operations of your business. Clearly you’re well versed in the business side of your business as well as the actual cider making. We’ve talked about branch to bot. You’re doing an awful lot in addition to all that. When you built out your tasting room, you essentially did that yourself. Brian, you managed the build out process as a General Manager of sorts. 

And I’d like to know how did that process go of actually building out the tasting room? Is there anything in the business that you’ve accomplished so far that you’d like to pull back from and maybe put a finer point on it? Is there some piece of advice you would give others who are trying to open a new business or specifically even a food and beverage average business?

Brian Dressler:  I’d say you need to have tenacity to do it. Be prepared to be surprised. Your best plans can go out of the window in minute one. And you really do need to be able to think on the fly if you aren’t able to kind of do those pivots on the fly.

And I don’t want to say keep chasing every lead and about facing every 30 seconds, but you know, when you have a situation, whether that’s with your model or market conditions or cash flow coming in the door and you can see that it’s not working, you do need to be able to strategize, put a plan together, react quickly and implement it. 

I think you also need to have a good degree of emotional resilience. It can really grind you down if you don’t really put yourself in the right mindset, take care of yourself. 

I’d say second to cash flow and maybe even next to cash flow. Burnout is probably one of the biggest things that we see with, you know, owner operators dropping out of the industry. Not just cider making or beer making, but also just restaurateurs. You know, it can really be a lot. 

I’d also say be ready for unexpected expenses. We had what we thought was a very robust plan that we put together. We thought of a lot of things and there were a bunch of things that, you know, we missed on there. You know, pest control, dishwasher rental, trash commercial, trash pickup, that type of things. Just these little things that seem small, but once you add them all up and they’re recurring costs on a monthly basis that you know that you definitely need to be able to compensate for that.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah, I can imagine.

Brian Dressler: I could talk on this topic all day.

Liam Dempsey: Sounds like you can. 

Olga and Brian, I met you at the cider fest at An Selma a while ago and I know you meet people all the time, so I’m sure you have no immediate memory of that, but that’s okay. That’s not where I’m going with this question, but we’ve interacted with each other a bunch over the last several months. And it’s really clear from speaking with you that you know a lot of the local brewers, breweries, winemakers and the like. And from the way you’ve spoken about them, you maybe they’re not super close friends, but you’re friendly with them, you respect them, you’re professionals in a local sector. 

So I want to ask you, what is the local, I’ll call it adult beverage industry. Like, is it collaborative, is it competitive? Is it somewhere in between? Talk about that for a few minutes, if you would.

Olga Dressler: Yeah, certainly there’s competition. You know, we’re all in business at the end of the day. Right. But I do think that there is a lot of camaraderie in the industry. People move from one business to the other a lot. Especially you see that, you know, maybe on the sales end of things, whether that be from distribution or somebody working at a bar or restaurant. 

And I think from my perspective, just like with our customers, sort of that end customer, the same is true relationship wise for the industry members as well. We really have built very good relationships with everybody that we’ve encountered, whether we do business with them or we’re seeking advice. 

From a production perspective, I think that’s really relationships are really important and that has given us confidence in our business in many ways.

Brian Dressler: I’d like to add that there’s actually a great battle that’s happening right now and many may not know it. And it’s battle between homogeneity and local uniqueness. So you have this one world where you can, you know, you can go on your phone right now and you can click a button on Amazon and you can have something in a few hours if you want to, you can go to Walmart and you can get the same products from coast to coast. 

You can drive down different roads across the nation and you’ll see the same stores, you’ll see the same, you know, chain restaurants and that type of thing. And there’s certainly a place for that. But to a degree, it takes the uniqueness out of a town and out of a customer experience, when you have everything, that’s the same and when you’ve got your peers in industry that have local independent businesses where you can go there and you can have a unique experience that you really can’t get anywhere else. The food is unique, the drinks are unique, the people are unique, and they’ve got unique stories. We’re all on that same team together.

So while we may be fighting to a degree for that share of local dollars, locally spent dollars, we’re also trying to promote this idea of, you know, local uniqueness over kind of just this mass produced experience. So, there certainly is collaboration and, you know, to use a similar phrase, you know, we’re all rowing the boat together.

Erik Gudmundson: So we had a conversation several episodes ago with Jeff Norman, the organizer of the Kennett Brew Fest and Kennett Winterfest. And Jeff mentioned Dressler Estate as a fantastic cider. In fact, Jeff shared that when he drinks ciders, which he typically drinks beer, but when he drinks ciders, he drinks yours. 

So what does it mean to you? Talking about local authorities and local peers, Jeff is a bit of a living legend when it comes to local beer fest. What does it mean to you that he’s speaking so highly about your brand and, you know, why do you think, you know, ciders and cider makers in general rate your work so highly?

Brian Dressler: Do you want to take that one?

Olga Dressler: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s an honor, obviously, especially for somebody that’s been in the industry for so long. It feels like the realization of the passion that we have. And I think that, you know, that is why we got into this industry was to show people that cider could be amazing, but that we really care about making a good product.

Brian Dressler: I agree.

Liam Dempsey: We have a listener submitted question for a listener who has in fact enjoyed your cider on more than one instance of a number of your different ciders. And their comment, their question is this. Your labeling is unique and quite distinct. So I want to ask you folks about how you decided on the look and feel of your labels and how you went about designing them. And given Olga’s professional background, I wondered if, if this was a weekend project for her, was it a passion project? Was it just get it done. Talk us about the story of how it all came together.

Olga Dressler: Yeah. I definitely think that I take the lion’s share of that responsibility with my background, but there was certainly still collaboration on the final output. And to be frank, it’s a very iterative process and that also very much leans into the work that I do.

We’re always looking to finesse and that goes for our labels. But our experience at the farmer’s market, what’s going on in the tasting room, you know, we’re always looking to optimize. But I think that when we were looking at how we were going to present our product, it being a cider and knowing what we knew at the time about the industry, and it’s still very much true today.

There’s a general consumer confusion about cider. Is it a beer, is it a wine? So, you know, Brian touched on this in our conversation so far. There’s some things that I think are borrowed from both industries and we wanted to take a little bit of that approach to our product. So, you know, we looked at everything from what’s the color and shape of the bottle going to be to, you know, what does the label look like, what font are we using? 

And we opted to go for an amber bottle because that does kind of borrow from beer, but in the shape of a wine bottle in that it has more of that gentle slope at the neck. And, you know, it could fit in both places depending on how it was promoted.

But we spent a lot of time, just like we did for our tasting room, looking at, you know, other producers in terms of like finished product. We were visiting bottle shops and looking what do we like, what do we don’t like? Where do we want our product to fit into this lineup? And we tend to lean more towards that minimalist look. It felt like it was going to help us stand out and we continue to push into that. 

But we wanted to try and give each of our products a distinct look, but that they felt like a family of products. And, you know, we could entertain the idea of, you know, venturing into something a little bit different in the future if we wanted to develop a different product line. But we really wanted these, you know, products to kind of look like they belong together. Little one is stirring a little bit.

Brian Dressler: We also did something really fun, I think maybe 3-4 years ago, where we wanted to lean into the sustainability of our brand. So prior to that point, we’ve been using paper bay, I’m sorry, plastic based labels. 

And for sustainability purposes, we wanted to migrate to a paper based label. We have a great supplier and we were able to work with them, get a bunch of different samples, figure out one that we really liked. Problem was was that it cost more than the plastic based label. 

So what we did, we didn’t want to increase the price point to the consumer and we didn’t want to lose our profit margin. So something really creative that we did is we actually shrunk the area of the label. So in the end that this label that cost us more in terms of area cost the same in the end. So we were able to take home the same margins, keep things where they were for the customer, and then have a win for sustainability. 

And honestly, I actually like the look of it a lot better than the plastic based label. I think it stands out a bit and it’s part of the unique vibe that we have going on right now.

Olga Dressler: Yeah. It gave us an opportunity to look at the information that was on the label and figure out how we could still make sure that we were driving home the points we need to get the information to the customers, but also the required stuff that needs to be there. That fills up a lot of space.

But, yeah. We’ve definitely looked at all of those things over time. And we’re really even down to font sizes thinking about is that hierarchy of information really getting the point that needs to be driven to the customer. 

Yeah. But we definitely take a lot of inspiration from, I think some classic wine labels, but tried to borrow, like I said, from beer as well, to make sure that, you know, that look sort of blended the best of both worlds.

Erik Gudmundson:  Well, it’s very clear from the experience as well as your answers here today that you are making a strong effort to be part of the community. And so I’d like to know, is there a business or nonprofit in your mind that more folks should know about? And how can the community support Dressler Estate in turn?

Brian Dressler: So one nonprofit that we’re very close to is the Downingtown Main Street Association. That one is a nonprofit that’s been in existence for over 30 years. I believe it was formed in 1993, and its purpose is the promotion of small business in Downingtown along that Main street.

Olga and I have both served on the board of directors since, I believe about 2018, and I think since 2021, I’ve been the chairman for the organization. We are made up of a number of different owners and employees at different establishments on Main street and around Main street in Downingtown. 

And what we do is we are working with the borough, currently the borough of Downingtown, to improve conditions for small businesses to help them both succeed and thrive. And also we’re working on improving our streetscapes, making them more walkable, beautification, fixing sidewalks, fixing lighting, that type of thing. 

We also throw as a fundraiser, a free concert to the community in Downingtown’s Kerr park, that is on June 14th. That’s a lot of fun. So that one’s completely free to enter. We’ve got, I think we might have close to nine food trucks this year, which is really fun.

And then we have a beer garden there where we have donated products from East Branch Brewing, Dressler Estate and some others in the area. And the sale of those beer and cider products there, those actually go back to our organization to help us raise the funds to pull all this off. 

So, to support that organization, I’d urge listeners to this podcast to attend the summer jam event on the 14th. You know, buy some drinks there, have a good time, tell friends about it. Also, if you have a business, consider sponsoring us for that event. That would help us greatly in that mission.

And then in terms of supporting Dressler Estate, I’d say come on by the tasting room, have a good time. We have a little bit of something for everyone. If you don’t love cider yet or you think you don’t, that’s okay. We’re open to converting you. We probably will. And that still doesn’t work. We still got great local beer, cider, alcohol, free options and local food. And tell some friends, spread the word about us. We greatly appreciate it.

Liam Dempsey: Yeah, I love that. There’s a lot going on in Downingtown this summer. Every summer, right? The concert there, Good Neighbor Day is in July. There’s a lot. I love that. I love that answer. 

So, given that your tasting room is now open and your family is growing in size, I wonder, are there opportunities to be hiring? Are you in a position where you’re gonna need any help yet and if so, where can folks learn about how they might get on the payroll and be part of the team that gets to deliver this fantastic cider?

Brian Dressler: There are, I’d say our urgent short term need would be for some part time work that could look like taking some shifts on in the tasting room. That could look like working farmers markets and off site events. Could also look like helping with production in terms of the bottling crew.

I’d say long term we’d be looking at some full time positions such as assistant cider maker and tap room manager and in time a wholesale manager that would handle distribution. Wholesale distribution into Chester county and beyond. 

And in terms of finding out about that, just shoot us an email if that sounds like something that might be a good fit for you and we can start the conversation there.

Erik Gudmundsson: Olga and Brian Dressler, owners and cider makers with Dressler Estate. Beyond stopping by your tasting room on Lancaster Avenue in Downingtown. Where can listeners connect with you or pick up some of your cider soon?

Olga Dressler: Yeah. So, you can Google us, Dressler State. We have information about where we’re doing events on our website, but we are on Facebook and Instagram at Dressler Estate is our handle for both. So people can kind of keep up to date on what we’re doing behind the scenes, but also events that we’re doing out and about in the community.

Liam Dempsey: Olga and Brian, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s always a pleasure spending time with you.

Olga Dressler: It was great. 

Brian Dressler: Thank you for having us.

Olga Dressler: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Erik Gudmundsson: Thank you definitely for coming out today. Really appreciate your time. 

And thank you also to my co host Liam Dempsey. Liam, you survived having a cold today on the episode, so well done. Thank you. I’m Erik Gudmundson.

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